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Oct 13, 2006, 11:54 PM // 23:54
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#1 |
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Frost Gate Guardian
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: The Netherlands
Guild: Intensive Care Unit [ICU]
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Be innovative and stop adding modified core professions.
Referring to my former thread at
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10020599 I still think Anet should stop adding new profession with each new chapter. But if Anet intend to add new professions still, please, let it be an innovative one. Be honest and admit that the 6 core are unique in their skills and attributes, but the Assassin is a modified version of a warrior, the ritualist is a modified healer and spirit spammer, the dervish is again a modified warrior using enchantments and the paragon is a twisted ranger/warrior (ranged damaged dealer using shouts). In case Anet runs out of ideas, let me give them an innovative idea about new professions. Before I design this new profession I did the search, but did not find any similar concept, mostly they are a combination of existing professions. My concept class is mainly based on manipilating the attributes instead of dealing damage or degeneration or hexes or whatsoever. As far as I know no profession class with attributes or party manipulation has been suggested before. So this is the profession I would suggest: Name: The Diplomat This profession is a support class and deals hardly any damage, but extremely hard to kill by others. It will mainly manipulate the attributes of opponents, reducing them to a level that warriors slashing with swords seem like a lover's embrace. Furthermore, it can expand the party temporarily and effect the whole party. Main Attribute: Diplomacy: For each point in Diplomacy, gain 2% of chance to reduce all target's enemy attributes to zero and reduces 1 damage for 20 seconds. Comment: It simply means that with a Diplomacy of 16, you have 32% chance to reduce all attribute points to zero and any damage dealt to you will be reduce by 16. Imagine an axe Warrior with axe=0, or a boon prot with divine = 0 and prot = 0. Secondary Attributes: Espionage: Replacing enemy skills with another skill that the Diplomat has unlocked for 5-30 sec. Comment: Depending on level of espionage, the diplomat will be able to search within opponent's skillbar and replace one skill on this skill bar with skills he has unlocked (it means that it could be any skills!) for 5-30 seconds. Bribery: For 10...30 seconds target's enemy will not be able to deal damage, target or using any skills targeting a player in this team. Coment: This attribute has something similar with mesmers interrupting skills, but it is much more than that. Bribery with shutdown one other player for a certain amount of seconds. It simply means a warrior deals no damage, an elementalist cannot cast a spell targeting a player of the diplomat's team, but it will allow ritualist and ranger putting down spirits or putting down traps and an opponent's monk can still heal, for these skills does not target the diplomat's team. Manipulation: For each 3 points in Manipulation, reduce 1 attribute point in attribute of an enemy for 5...15 seconds. Comment: This simply means that at Manipulation of 15 you can reduce 5 points of attributes of target enemy. Imagine a WoH monk with healing = 15 has a healing = 10 for 15 seconds now. Some examples of skills: Treaty of Peace (Elite) Attribute: Diplomacy / Cost: 25 Energy / Casting Time: 1 sec / Recharge 90 sec World Enchantment. As long as none of party member is attacking or using any skills, all opponents are not allowed to attack or using any skills. The Pen is mightier than the Sword. Attribute: Diplomacy / Cost 10 Energy / Casting Time: 1/2 sec / Recharge 15 sec Enchantment. For 5...10 seconds, randomly redirect damage dealt to you by target opponent to an opponent. If there is no legal opponent this spell ends directly. Diplomatic Immunity Attribute: Diplomacy / 5 Energy / Casting Time 2 sec / Recharge 10 sec This skill cannot be interrupted in any way and during casting this spell the Diplomat cannot be targeted. The next opponent's skill targeting you is ignored and the caster suffer 1...4 energy degeneration for 3 seconds. Infiltration (Elite) Attribute: Espionage / 20 Energy / Casting Time 1 sec / Recharge 45 sec For 10...15 seconds, you switched sides to opponent's team. Stolen Documents Attribute: Espionage / 10 Energy / Casting Time 1/4 sec /Recharge 10 sec Search target skill bar for one skill. For 10..30sec, the next time this skill is used it is interrupted as if never cast and replaced with a random spell you have unlocked for 10 sec. If the chosen skill was a diplomat skill both you and target opponent are dazed for 10 seconds. False Orders Attribute: Espionage / 15 Energy / Casting Time 1/4 sec / Recharge 10 sec Search target skill bar for one skill. For 10..30sec, the next time this skill is used it targets a random opponent and replaced with an other skill on that opponent's skillbar randomly for 10 sec. If the opponent is not legal then the skills ends directly Change of Heart (Elite) Attribute: Bribery / 25 Energy / Casting time 3 sec / Recharge 60 sec. Unique. Lose 50% of your health. For 10...30 target opponent switches side to yours. Unique = only one active Change of Heart is allowed at any given time. Convincement Attribute: Bribery / 10 Energy / Casting time 1/2 sec / Recharge 10 sec. For 10 sec, everytime you would lose healthpoints that loss is negated and you again 1 energy instead and all adjacent opponent lose adrenaline and suffer from cripple for 3 sec. Written Consent Attribute: Bribery / 0 Energy / Casting time 1/2 sec / Recharge 20 sec. Signet. For 5...10 sec, for every point you lose in energy, you lose health points instead. Mind Distraction Attribute: Manipulation / 5 Enery / Casting Time 1sec / Recharge 15 sec Target highest attribute(s) decrease(a) 1 per second till it reaches 0. Mind Distraction ends if that attribute hits zero. Targets suffering from Mind Distraction cannot be targeted furthermore. Morale Boost Attribute: Manipulation / 10 Enery / Casting Time 1sec / Recharge 20 sec For 2..8 sec, all your party members gain +2 more in their primary attribute. Profession Reset (Elite) Attribute: Manipulation / 10 Enery / Casting Time 1sec / Recharge 20 sec For 3..12 sec, target secondary profession is reset to Diplomat. If its secondary is already Diplomat this effect is negated. |
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Oct 14, 2006, 04:04 AM // 04:04
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#2 |
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Desert Nomad
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Heightened state of mind.
Profession: P/W
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This diplomat idea is basicly a modified support/chant and curser/hexer, and your saying that exsisting classes are just rehashes. It focuses on group buffing and debuffing abilities of other classes in a different manner and different effects, but hardly a new technique.
I don't think adding new "abilities" for every single class is worthwile. Some like Combo system and Weapon Spells are original, they a variation of the same effects already in the game, with a few new ones, but they work in different ways, and are strategically different. The true test of originality is that no new class can be replicated by any combination of exsisting classes. Shadowsteping, High frequency Combo attacks and unique hex w/melee in combination with a secondary cannot be replicated by any previous class combination. Spirits which work Defensively or Offensively for only one team and Unremovable Weapon Spells are also original from any abilities provided by previous classes. They may mirror simular effects on other classes, but they are different and work in different manners. The only serious defect is the deficiency of use these abilities hold, with easily toppled Spirits and infrequent Shadowstepping, the uses of these classes do not shine like they should. If you want some truely unusual and original moves, try something like "Dash" attacks which instantly move a player in a straight line and deal damage to everything they cross, a unique combination of movement and damage placement. Or a projectile weapon which moves slowly in a oval pattern towards its target and hits everything in its path. Or Immobilizing and Hostage skills which sacrifice your movement for powerful mass area and weather effects, or keep an enemy from moving for a period of time. How about flight which allows you to move over other players, or moving combat into a swimming or climbing environment with altered skill effects and new skill types. How about an Elephant Riding class which causes added blocking and reduces the damage taken from melee attacks serving as a real tank instead of a survivable target with barrier protection. I find it rather humorous to resent simular class effects than suggest one of your own, drawing comparisons of far more original classes and making one less original. If your going to get critical, come up with something seriously more original than a Group Buff and Debuff class with a few new kinds of Buffs and Debuffs. Oh here is a real original idea, add a new class which cannot combine with other proffessions, which has a full compliment of attributes to itself, a class which isn't human or demihuman, but a very different functioning creature with claws and moves on all 4. Take your own advice, please. and take this to the class suggestion sub-thread as well. |
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Oct 14, 2006, 04:47 AM // 04:47
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#3 |
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Pre-Searing Cadet
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: New Zealand
Guild: Envoys of Time [EoT]
Profession: R/Rt
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Well alright idea but the name and idea is relly to modern for a game like guildwars its kinda like adding in guns. Guild Wars is kinda medivel yet your idea is more 20th century.
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Oct 14, 2006, 04:52 AM // 04:52
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#4 |
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Wilds Pathfinder
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Los Angeles
Guild: Pink Pearl
Profession: Mo/Me
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I like this idea, although I'd say that any new profession they make will always relate to something else. You can't complain, because, each profession will still have it's own uniqueness. I know ANET won't be stupid enough to repeat spells in different professions. Ritualist healing is different from Monk Healing. Although to the comment above... Guild Wars has instruments such as guitars which I don't think they had during medevil. Or At least I think.
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Oct 14, 2006, 05:17 AM // 05:17
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#5 |
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Pre-Searing Cadet
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: New Zealand
Guild: Envoys of Time [EoT]
Profession: R/Rt
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What i ment was the basic setting ok it has none medievil stuff eg the guitar but its mainly medievil
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Oct 14, 2006, 05:36 AM // 05:36
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#6 | ||||
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Wilds Pathfinder
Join Date: Jan 2006
Guild: Song of the Forsaken
Profession: E/
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Your attributes are very over powered. Attributes are either constant (such as Energy Storage) or take place everytime an event occurs (such as a spell being cast, an attack, etc). Your's sound more like skills. For example:
Quote:
Also, most attributes have no inherent effect other than to make skills with that attribute more powerful. For example, on a Mesmer, Fast Casting has an inherent effect, but neither Domination, Inspiration nor Illusion do. All of your attributes have inherent effects. about your skills: Quote:
Quote:
all in all, this profession just sounds like a more powerful variation of a mesmer Quote:
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Oct 14, 2006, 05:59 AM // 05:59
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#7 | |
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Sins FTW!
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: USA
Guild: Angel Sharks [AS]
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Overpowered much?
Quote:
It's not that new classes aren't innovative, it's just that by your logic anything remotely resembling a quality of a core class is just a "modified version." All melee classes will be modified warriors, all range physical attackers will be modified rangers, all high damage casters will be modified elementalists, all healers will be modified monks, etc. BahamutKaiser even pointed out that your profession itself is much like a modified Paragon/Mesmer. The new classes of Factions and Nightfall are unique but they do have similarites. It will be hard to make things completely different and not fully invent a new set of skill types. Vinegrower pointed out the major faults in the profession's design. Use that to work out the minor ones in the other attributes and skills.
__________________
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Oct 14, 2006, 07:46 AM // 07:46
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#8 |
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Furnace Stoker
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Kali
Profession: W/E
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some intersting skills...
but why name it Diplomat? that just sound so... boring... |
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Oct 14, 2006, 07:49 AM // 07:49
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#9 |
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Pre-Searing Vanquisher
Join Date: Jun 2005
Guild: Fifteen Over Fifty [Rare]
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Seeing as this is really a concept class thread in disguise. I'm moving this to the new sub-forum, made specifically for these kinds of threads.
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Oct 14, 2006, 08:37 PM // 20:37
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#10 | |
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Frost Gate Guardian
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: The Netherlands
Guild: Intensive Care Unit [ICU]
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Quote:
Curses and hexes have effect on health points or energy point... these attributes effect attributes points. |
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Oct 14, 2006, 08:41 PM // 20:41
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#11 | |
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Frost Gate Guardian
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: The Netherlands
Guild: Intensive Care Unit [ICU]
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Quote:
Last edited by sakura75; Oct 14, 2006 at 08:58 PM // 20:58.. |
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Oct 14, 2006, 08:52 PM // 20:52
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#12 | ||||
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Frost Gate Guardian
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: The Netherlands
Guild: Intensive Care Unit [ICU]
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Quote:
 I think I need to have a closer look at this profession Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Last edited by sakura75; Oct 14, 2006 at 08:59 PM // 20:59.. |
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Oct 14, 2006, 08:57 PM // 20:57
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#13 | |
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Frost Gate Guardian
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: The Netherlands
Guild: Intensive Care Unit [ICU]
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Quote:
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Oct 14, 2006, 09:47 PM // 21:47
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#14 |
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Desert Nomad
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Heightened state of mind.
Profession: P/W
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Curses and Hexes effect an an endless variety of statuses, from chance to hit, to taking damage if something is done, to degen and energy stealing, and many other abilities. To say that it is different from a Curse or a Shout because it targets a different ability wile claiming something like Binding Rituals are modified versions of something like Wells or Nature Rituals because they just do something different with the same engine is self incriminating.
Your abilites are no more different from Shouts and Curses than Minions or Spirits are different than Binding Rituals. So, as I said, if your going to critisize the lack of originality new professions have, than come up with something truely original, which works on a different principal or in a different way. Your own implecations convict your own idea. And on a side note, reducing someones attribute by exagerated amounts is flat out silly. There are only a few skills which attack attributes, or skill use altogether. The simple truth is that this is a modified mesmer, and your talking about how bad it is to make modified classes. Making some exagerated and overpowered disable types doesn't make it original, it just makes it broken. |
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Oct 14, 2006, 11:59 PM // 23:59
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#15 |
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Furnace Stoker
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Kali
Profession: W/E
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BK seem to contradict himself. For one, you call it un-orginal, yet in another paragraph, you seem to implie that the attribute altering skills are something not much exisiting proff use.
But I will agree that few skills seem to be along the line of shourts and curses and hex, and still not stand out enough to be consider as totally orginal. Personally, I do see the attribute alterning skills to be the gem of this proffession (but not as much as switching team of totally block out damages type of skills). I think I only read 1 concept class that use that before. And to call it unbalance, unless it has a fundemental flaw, would suggest that you already have an idea of what to adjust to make it balance. The skills suggested should only be taken as suggestion and examples of what the class could do, and not take it at its full face value. I also found it hard to create a original function class by this point. A.net has done a good job with the core 6, in that from all its combinations, it pretty much cover all bases of fantasy game's classes' functions. Thus two remining factors, the "Coolnesss", and the Unique Playing Mechanic/Style, would be what the new classes offer. Overally, the class seem to have potential... but I would hope to see more name change, re-suffle of skills and attribute, and add 1 or 2 more new playing mechanic (few thing could be done with "Words"). ------------------------------------ For name... I kinda would call it Scribe, or Mediator. (as Diplomat sound too much having link with dealing of two nations). |
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Oct 15, 2006, 12:29 AM // 00:29
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#16 |
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Desert Nomad
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Heightened state of mind.
Profession: P/W
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A slight difference is obvious, and I didn't say it wasn't acceptable, he did.
His soap box here is that all the new professions are too simular to other classes, when they are far more original than his. I didn't say his skills where total copies, I said they wern't original enough, By His Own Standard. I am a very, very harsh enemy of double standard, and I correct it wherever I find it. There is an amount of simularity in any function, they are all related in some way or another, the ability to gauge the amount of difference seperates those who can recognize the gray between black and white. My whole point here is that this thread is hypocritical, insulting the multitude of differences in our new classes only to make a class with only 1 or 2 differences, which isn't exactly the same, but certainly isn't a "Paragon" of originality. Class dismissed. |
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Oct 15, 2006, 02:03 AM // 02:03
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#17 | ||
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Furnace Stoker
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Kali
Profession: W/E
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We all love your double drouble standard, BK...
I feel there are some gem in this CC, just need to polish it better. But I do see your view, BK, being a "former" CC concepter, that the OP's opening paragraph might seem a bit offending. But keep in mind that not everyone have the luxury of reading every CC posted, or aware of them. So don't take it too personal, and judge it as what is given. Quote:
Quote:
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...d.php?t=134938 - Mediator http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=3029360- Virtuoso/Bard (which have AoE effect, and attribute increase-reduce effect... but that is not really orginal as it is something I taken from someon's CC befoe) http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...05#post1687805 -Has some Espionage skills in there (with mix review) (sorry if 2 of the 3 link given are mine.... but its just more memorible) Last edited by actionjack; Oct 15, 2006 at 02:08 AM // 02:08.. |
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Oct 15, 2006, 04:41 PM // 16:41
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#18 |
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Desert Nomad
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Heightened state of mind.
Profession: P/W
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There is no double standard, there is one very refined standard, as I implied, your unable to distinguish the exact details. You can't deny the hypocrocy here, overlooking the amount of originality in the expansion proffessions and than making an idea less original.
Perfect White and Black don't exsist, they are abstract, likewise, perfect class concepts don't exsist, there are the lesser ones and the greater ones. I always set the standard high and than I bound over it effortlessly, this guy claims the standard Anet is using is too low, and than make something even lower, it is ridiculous. A few new form of modified disable, which is exactly what this is (disabling attributes instead of skills), using the same exsisting targeting functions isn't very new, it is a new bullet for the same gun. A double standard is one standard applied to others and another applied to oneself, and as always, the only difference between the standard I hold others to and the one I hold myself to is that I am even more critical of my own work. If there is any double standard, I am being lenient with him by only pointing out how poor the idea is compared to his own judgement. And your double standard is that you think it is offensive for me to say anything derogitory to anyone even though it is almost always accurate, wile you feel the liberty to make false and slanderous "observations" about me for being accurate. My final assesment is that Actionjack is very enthusiastic about the game, but isn't rational or logical. I am done resonding to your ignorance, if you can't recognize than you woln't learn from correction anyway. Saddest reality is that you agree with everything I say yet claim it is doubious of me to say so. Your basicly taking the same side than casting insults on the possition that you are also on, and you think I am incoherent. Actionjack aside, this idea doesn't live up to the OPs own standard, and if you can't come up with at least a dozen original abilities than you certainly didn't meet the standard of at least 4 or 5 significant differences between core professions and expansion professions. You failed your OWN standard, I would personally give you "D" in originality, and more importantly an "F" in identity. Just as I have said about such ideas as Bard, musicians don't belong on the battlefield, if there is going to be someone "musically" enchanting teammates with supportive effects, than it should be a War Priest which sings battle chants. As usual, that was what we ended up with in Paragon, to be honest, the Templar idea I had was almost exactly the same as Paragon with the difference of melee spears instead of throwing spears, which was even more original. Seems Anet had the same idea developed on their own though. There is a parable, consider the beam in your own eye before trying to remove the splinter from your brothers. If you can't be twice as critical on yourself than others, than you really don't have any buisiness critisizing anyone elses work. If you have any sense, you could proof read your idea and realize you didn't live up to the standard you set on Anet. To judge yourself first before judging others is the ability to be above the critisizm of others. Although the simple minded can always resort to slander when they simply don't understand. Last edited by BahamutKaiser; Oct 15, 2006 at 04:45 PM // 16:45.. |
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Oct 15, 2006, 05:18 PM // 17:18
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#19 | |
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Furnace Stoker
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Kali
Profession: W/E
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Quote:
But I certainly do not "agree with everything you say" (on this post or other, afterall, I am not you), so stop feel "the liberty to make false and slanderous "observations" about me". And didn't you already "cut" me off befoe? |
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Oct 15, 2006, 05:38 PM // 17:38
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#20 | ||
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La-Li-Lu-Le-Lo
Join Date: Feb 2006
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Quote:
I can appreciate your desire for change. But your profession really is just a tweaked out Mesmer profession. Mesmers manipulate the opponent's ability to act, and your Diplomat does the same, albeit with different methods. While a Mesmer keeps a foe from dealing damage with hexes, the Diplomat keeps them from doing damage by destroying their attributes. In this way, I have used your own logic against you. Yes, perhaps the Assassin is just a tweaked Warrior. Perhaps the Paragon is just a Warrior/Ranger with funny armor. On that same note, however, this "Diplomat" of yours... Well, it's just a modified Mesmer, really. They both do the same thing, just with different methods. The only real difference I can see is that the Mesmer profession is powerful, whereas the "Diplomat" is simply overpowered. Switching teams so that they can regenerate without being in danger? Infinite energy capability? Being able to lock out a specific skill or spell? The "Diplomat" would break the game. I'm not even a hardcore PvP player, and even I can see that. Again, I understand your desire for change, and I can relate. However, when making change, one must stay within reason, and try to uphold the balance and overall spirit of the game. By the way, it's annoying when someone preaches about ideas being reused, and then they go and steal an idea from a TCG. Quote:
Last edited by Faer; Oct 15, 2006 at 05:44 PM // 17:44.. |
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